Kobe is No Michael, or Dwight, or Brandon, or Tony, or…

- The Season's Over -

Kobe is No Michael, or Dwight, or Brandon, or Tony, or…

April 17, 2009

Not Your 2009 NBA MVP By Zachariah Blott

With the NBA regular season over, we are less than a month away from finding out who the sportswriters and broadcasters have selected to win the Maurice Podoloff Trophy, commonly known as the MVP award. Could it be LeBron James, whose freakish offensive game, now paired with intelligent defensive play, has lead the Cavaliers to the league’s best record? Might they select Dwayne Wade, who has statistically crushed all opponents while carrying his team to a 28-win improvement over last season? Maybe they’ll pick Dwight Howard or Chris Paul, whose rapid ascents to superstardom have unquestionably placed them among the NBA elite.

Regardless of who in this group deservedly will hoist the trophy in mid-May, I ask that everyone put a permanent moratorium on mentioning one specific player for this or any future MVP awards: Kobe Bryant.

Kobe Bryant photo credit: Icon SMI

Whether you look at it from a statistical standpoint, or from the simple angle of “How much does he improve his team?,” there is not much reason to discuss Bryant as one of the league’s top players.

Statistically, James outshines the Laker shooting guard in every conceivable category. He scores more points (28.4 to 26.8), grabs WAY more rebounds (7.6 to 5.2), dishes out WAY more assists (7.3 to 4.9), corrals more steals (1.7 to 1.5), blocks more shots (1.2 to 0.5), gets to the charity stripe far more often (9.4 to 6.9), and hits a higher percentage of his shots (48.9 to 46.7). Dwayne Wade’s stats similarly mock Bryant’s, except even more so (30.2 points, 2.2 steals, 9.8 FTA, 49.1%). Paul and Howard average only 4 and 6 less points than Bryant, respectively, but produce a whole slew of numbers that crush whatever basic measurables last year’s “MVP” brings to the table (Paul: 11.0 assists, 2.8 steals, 50.3% — Howard: 13.8 rebounds, 2.9 blocks, 10.8 FTA, 57.2%). Not only do all four have better raw data for fans to gawk at, all four play on teams with considerably slower paces than the Lakers (LA has 96.9 possessions per game, Orlando 94.6, Miami 92.3, Cleveland 91.2, and New Orleans 90.0), so Kobe’s stats are comparatively inflated.

Beyond the sexiness of puffed up statistics, Bryant has always received credit for leading his team to championships and great records. He simply makes his team win, many observers assume. His Lakers took home the pennants in 2000, 2001, and 2002. They made a dramatic resurgence the past two seasons, including the West’s best record this season. These successes can directly be attributed to the big men on his team, and in almost no capacity to Bryant, however. Let’s examine how Los Angeles has done over the past 11 years that Kobe was a regular starter. As you’ll quickly see, Bryant is only capable of “leading” a great team when his team also has a great post presence.

Breaking down Kobe’s career and impact, after the jump…

Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O’Neal Photo Credit: Icon SMI

Shaq Era (1998 to 2004)

It is well documented what Shaq brings to a team. The Magic and Heat, his teams before and after being a Laker, improved dramatically with him and were significantly worse without him. In addition to the three championships he won as a Laker, he won another with Miami in 2006, and got to the championships with Orlando in 1995. The team’s winning percentages with and without Shaq and Kobe during this era make it clear who was boss. When both players missed a game, LA was 2-6 (.250). When Kobe played but Shaq missed a game, the team was 23-25 (.479). When Shaq played but Kobe was out, the team was 32-10 (.762). When the two teamed up on the court, the Lakers were 261-101 (.721). As anyone can see, the team was around .500 when Bryant was running the show, and actually did better with only O’Neal in the lineup than with both of them.

*Remember that the ’98-’99 season only had 50 games. I am not able to figure out which game the big fella missed that season, so I just computed the entire 31-19 record as part of the last category. Also, I did not count a player as having played in a game if he logged less than 10 minutes on the floor.

Post-Shaq Era (2004 to 2007)

When Shaq left for the Eastern Conference, LA stumbled considerably, going 121-125 over the next three seasons. When Kobe played, they were 111-111, and without him were 10-14. The Lakers suffered little dropoff without their star guard on the floor, much like during the Shaq Era.

Bynum-Gasol Era (2007 to 2009)

Andrew Bynum came into his own during the ’07-08 season and gave LA a double-double center for 35 games. After he was lost for the season, the Grizzlies rather magnanimously sent Pau Gasol westward for a handful of beans. Both big men played a majority of this past season in the frontcourt with the severely underrated Lamar Odom; the trio averaged a spectacular 45 points and 26 rebounds. During these two seasons, the Lakers went 111-32 when either Bynum or Gasol played. Guess what their record was when neither of them appeared. I’ll give you a hint; they were consistently around .500 for the previous nine seasons when it was up to Kobe to win games. Well, they were 11-10.

A player who is truly great can pull his team above .500 without relying on a great frontcourt to bail him out. Bryant has never done this. LeBron James’ Cavaliers have been 211-117 (.643) over the past four years without anything resembling Shaq or the combination of Gasol/Bynum/Odom. Chris Paul’s Hornets have dramatically improved from 18-64 four years ago to 105-59 (.640) during the past two seasons, even with Tyson Chandler’s production falling off the table and David West’s output remaining relatively stagnant. Michael Jordan’s Bulls of the ‘90s had no real center to speak of, but he did quite well paired with Scottie Pippen’s production (22 and 7 from 1991 to 1998), which is slightly better than Odom’s (15 and 10 from 2004 to 2009).

Kobe’s inflated statistics and inability to make his team better (beside the fact that he was directly responsible for the Lakers not having a Hall of Fame center after 2004) do not peg him as an MVP-caliber player. Don’t believe the hype.

If only the media could stop believing what they’ve created.

Zachariah Blott is an English teacher in Portland, not an Amish Charles Dickens character.

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42 Comments »Posted by ETB Contributor on Apr. 17, 2009 at 4:30 am in ETB Articles, NBA

42 Responses

sounds like you love your stats, so let me give you some others: kobe led the lakers to above 50% in both 05-06 and 06-07 with kwame brown in the frontcourt. and in 04-05 they were missing phil jackson. get your facts right. so if you cant even get those numbers right, how do you expect me to belive the other numbers youve regurgitated here?

i cannot believe your trying to take away from his last season, when bynum went out with the injury, he held the lakers afloat through the allstar break until they ‘stole’ pau from memphis. you must have been asleep last season when he IMMEDIATELY gelled with pau gasol to win the last 13 or so games in the season to get the best record ahead of the hornets.

you also said that the lakers average more posessions, and this is the reason kobe averages more points. so why haven’t you also pointed out that wade would average more assists because he handles the ball on pretty much every play? you cannot factor some things into stats, which is why i think they are the worst thing to use to determine who is the better player.

did you even consider that the triangle offense needs a dominant passing big man? or that lebron is so good at drive-and-kick plays that he’s bound to rack up assists with shooters like west, williams, big z, and szerbiak? and by the way lebron only just hit his first game winning shot this year against the warriors.

i just dont get it. when kobe is letting it fly like he was before the gasol days, people call him a ball hog. but when dwayne wade does essentially the same thing with a few more assists, everyone loves him because of his personality, not because of his basketball. and then when kobe gets some good players on his team and starts to defer to them, you go out and write some bullsh*t like this.

i will agree with you on one thing, kobe is not as good a playmaker as lebron/wade/cp3. he’s a pure scorer, everyone knows that. but when it comes to winning games, kobe is just as good (if not better) than either of them.

i could go on all day breaking down the stats you have put up but i dont want to waste my time.

in conclusion, lebron will win this year because he has been better than kobe (not just statistically), and his team has the best record.

i dont expect kobe to win it two years in a row around the likes of lebron and co.

rant over.

Posted by: r.i.p_petrovic on April 17th, 2009 at 6:16 am

from portland. that explains everything

Posted by: r.i.p_petrovic on April 17th, 2009 at 6:27 am

Here, here. About time somebody came out and said it.

Posted by: Entwhistler on April 17th, 2009 at 10:02 am

No one stat is ever going to tell the story, and frankly stats in general can never capture it all.

The fact is, in the crunch time of on important game there is no player on the planet I would rather have with the ball than Kobe.

And Kobe pushed Shaq out? That’s not how I remember it.

Posted by: Jimmy Jam on April 17th, 2009 at 10:16 am

This is Zach’s first post as a contributing writer for ETB, and it’s certainly a controversial one. We’re looking forward to more from him over the next few months. Welcome to Empty the Bench, Zach.

For the record, I don’t think he should take home the trophy this year, but I was firmly in Kobe’s corner for MVP last season.

Andrew

Posted by: Andrew Thell on April 17th, 2009 at 10:20 am

Thanks for the fresh contribution, Zach. While I agree Kobe didn’t earn the MVP this year (LeBron is just too obvious to me) and think you made some good points in your post, I have a beef with this statement:

I ask that everyone put a permanent moratorium on mentioning one specific player for this or any future MVP awards: Kobe Bryant.

Any future MVP awards? Really? That sounds like a beef with Kobe the person, not Kobe the player in a particular season.

Also… did you really just compare Scottie Pippen (one of the 50 greatest players of all time) with Lamar Odom? And completely the ignore the contributions of Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman?

Every great championship team has had at least two great players. That doesn’t diminish what Kobe has done in the past; it merely highlights how amazing LeBron is this season.

Posted by: Jeremy on April 17th, 2009 at 10:59 am

1) Kobe is actually NOT who you want with the ball at the end of a close game. This website breaks down game-tying/winning shots over the past 5 years through February 5 ((http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm). Bryant is near the top of the list with 14 game winners. But his .250 shooting percentage when it’s all on the line put him below the league average and virtually everyone else on the list who you’d expect to take those shots. Also, Kobe’s 1-5 A-TO rate is the worst on the list of anyone with at least 1 assist during these crucial seconds. He hit a lot of game winners for one reason: he shoots so many of them, but he’s still worse than the league as a whole at actually making them.

2) Are you actually trying to argue that Kobe needs a dominant passing big man and an amazing coach to be successful? I think we’re on the same page here.

3) Bryant hardly kept the Lakers afloat last season between Bynum’s injury and Gasol’s arrival. They were 25-11 before Bynum was lost and only 5-5 in the gap before Gasol showed up. From that point on, they were 22-4 with Gasol in the lineup. And during the 10 games the big Spaniard missed in late-March? Back to the same 5-5. Bryant “keeping them afloat” actually would have kept the Lakers out of the playoffs.

4) Lebron is good at the drive-and-kick because he’s actually willing to kick.

Posted by: Zachariah Blott on April 17th, 2009 at 11:19 am

I want a permanent moratorium on talking about Kobe as an MVP because he’s proven for 11 straight seasons that his team will only be .500 without a great frontcourt; I doubt he’s changing his ways anytime soon. Too many people are wrapped up in his scoring stats to actually pay attention to how little he contributes to making a club WIN.

Posted by: Zachariah Blott on April 17th, 2009 at 11:26 am

1.) two time nba scoring champion 06-07

2.) six time all defensive first team

3.) 9 in a row 40+ points because he wanted too

4.) his stats maybe just slightly lower (because if not he’s a ball hog right?) but, name one player who can stop him from scoring at will

5.) he has been doing it for 12 years with 11 playoffs

6.) he has been regard as one of the best the whole time while everyone is still trying to reach the top with him and break the multiple records he holds

Posted by: Don't hate the player hate the game on April 17th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

Que la fuck? Kobe es el mejor.

Posted by: Juan on April 17th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

The goal of basketball is to win. With all of Kobe’s accolades, why does his team win at the same rate regardless of if he plays or not? Jacking bad shoots, not feeding the post, and consistently averaging more turnovers + fouls than assists (find another good guard who does that year-after-year) does not help a team win.

And about this no-player-can-stop-him nonsense: if this was true, his teams would be over .500 when he plays without great posts, his shooting percentages would be much better, and he wouldn’t have the worst crunch-time shooting percentage and A-TO rate of anyone noteworthy.

Posted by: Zachariah Blott on April 17th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

I think that Lebron’s field goal percentage is higher because he plays free throw line & below, and Kobe is a jumpshooter (it also helps that Lebron is ridiculously big and athletic, I swear the guy looked at least 28yrs old on draft day. Kobe is not able to overpower his defenders like Lebron does, which is what makes him less effective, and what makes Lebron so great. And if you want to see what happens when Kobe gets a smaller defender, just watch his performances against Boston last year when he was matched up with Rondo in the early stages of game 3/4)

I didn’t say Kobe needs a dominant passing big man, I said that’s how the triangle works. It’s how the offense is run. Quite different to the Cavaliers offense which puts the ball in Lebron’s hands a lot more (who wouldn’t, the guys a great playmaker)

I think when choosing mvp it comes down to personal preference based on personality. I’m a fan of both guys, and I think Lebron deserves to win it this year. I want to clarify that I don’t think Kobe is better than Lebron, I just think your’e taking too much away from what Kobe does in this article.

And while Lebron is a better playmaker than Kobe, his jumpshot needs almost as much work as Shaq’s free throws. So we can go back and forth all day with stats, or with what each player needs to improve or do, but the fact is, neither of us has played with the cavaliers or lakers, we dont know either Lebron or Kobe personally, and we dont know what they are like as leaders, which is what this discussion is all about (not about the numbers you love so much)

I just dont think basketball is as black and white as stats. Do me a favour and watch the Lakers @ Rockets highlights, and the Lakers Spurs game from that same week. And then try to tell me Kobe can’t get the jobe done.

Here’s another stat for your article: Season series: Lakers 2 – Cavaliers 0. Where was Lebron on 8th Feb, 2009? Who played better in LA? Kobe 12 assists, Lebron 4. Do these matchup stats mean Kobe is better than Lebron?

And another game you should look at – the Lakers beating the Celtics to stop their 19 game winning streak. Last few minutes: Kobe drives, draws 3 defenders, passes to Gasol for a layup. Kobe drives, draws 2 defenders, Gasol gets a layup plus the foul. Game.

Stop reading stats and watch some games.

Posted by: r.i.p_petrovic on April 17th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

You are an example of why I don’t like the Blazers any more, your fans are the biggest Kobe-haters since the Kings.

Posted by: r.i.p_petrovic on April 17th, 2009 at 9:19 pm

I just realised that the title of this article is “Kobe is no Michael, or … or BRANDON ROY!?” What a joke. You are so biased it’s not even funny.

Posted by: r.i.p_petrovic on April 17th, 2009 at 9:51 pm

If he shoots a lot, scores 35 a game, he’s a ballhog. If he doesn’t have the stats, then he doesn’t deserve anything. What does he have to do to get any credit from you? Remember that you included crunch-time stats from the past 5 years, three of which (where the majority of crunch-time heroics was needed) were without any real star on the team, so he was the focal point of the defense at all times. If you look beyond stats and into the surroundings, you’ll see just how amazing it is that Kobe was able to score so much with smush and kwame. I don’t think Kobe deserves the MVP this year either, but you can’t just talk stats without context. Your stats are also very misleading. If you pick and choose what years should count (without a good big man vs. with a big man, one of the most important positions in basketball), then I could similarly say
Lebron James with a “good” point guard, Mo Milliams: 80% win percentage.
without Mo Williams: 54% win percentage.

Let’s hope all your future posts have a little more thought into them and please try not to seem so biased. As Jeremy posted above, it’s as if you just hate the guy. It must be hard to enjoy this great game if you can’t even what one of the best in the game has to offer.

Posted by: anonymous coward on April 18th, 2009 at 4:00 am

Another thing, your last point comparing Lebron without a Kobe’s cast, each team has a different philosophy. If you switched Kobe with Lebron, Lebron would not be able to succeed. The offense around Lebron thrives with his drive and kick. The inside cannot be clogged with Pau/Odom/Bynum. On the other hand, an offense around Kobe relies on freedom to move around the perimeter. Therefore your whole point is moot.

Posted by: anonymous coward on April 18th, 2009 at 4:05 am

Well played Mr.Zachariah.Well played indeed.Now, allow me to present my rebuttals:

1) Lamar Odom and Scottie Pippen?? When it’s been well established that Pip’s one of the 40 Greatest of All Time and Lamar’s at his best when he’s the Third Banana?? Really?? Well, ppg and rpg are such crude tools, wouldn’t you agree?? Let’s go for some “advanced” stats, shall we?? With an average Usage %age of 25.04, Pip’s clearly a more important player to the Bulls than Lamar has been to the Lakers, as seen by his Usage %age of 20.7. And Pip does much much more with his extra possessions posting a PER of 21.3 compared to Odom’s 16.76. Crucially though, Pip’s TO% is lesser compared to Odom although he uses up four more possessions. Pip blows Odom out of the water in the defensive categories posting an average DRtg of 102.5 compared to Odom’s 105.2. And please, Odom’s a Power Forward, and he’s supposed to outrebound a perimeter player like Pip. For God’s sake Pip blocks the same number of shots per game while averaging twice the number of steals per game. I really can’t stress this enough, u effed up Zach. Big time.

2) I’m curious as to who these mythical players are who’re supposed to carry the team entirely on their shoulders with no help. LeBron?? Well Ilgauskas and Mo Williams combined with the most stifling defense this side of Boston doesn’t count for much huh?? And the defense part was true in seasons past (team rating 11th in 07-08 due to the mid-season trade;4th in 06-07), when LeBron’s D was considered to be one of the areas where he trailed Kobe. MJ had Pip and Grant during the first three-peat and Pip and Rodman during the second three-peat. Prior to Pip’s addition Jordan endured seasons of 40-42 and 38-44. So I guess Jordan’s claim to being the Greatest Player of All Time is null and void due to these seasons of futility, where he toiled without any help??? (And btw MJ had Orlando Woolridge in the 38 win season who averaged 23 points and 5.6 rpg on 55% shooting.I’m guessing MJ’s status as the GOAT is in serious jeopardy due to this,huh,Zach??)

3) D-Wade,CP3 and D-12 have all had seasons for the ages. And I have no shame in admitting that Kobe was significantly out-performed by them, individually. However, Wade uses up around 36 percent of his team’s possessions which is just obscenely selfish. Now when Kobe lit up the league in 05-06 for 30 ppg he was roundly criticized for being selfish, which I understand. While now, Wade’s been feted for essentially being as selfish as Kobe was (36.2 US% vs 38.7 US%)?? Dwight has significant and recurring problems with turnovers (15.1 TOV%) and free throw shooting (59.4 %) which render him a late game nonentity, not to mention his propensity of being a bit of a black hole (7.3 AST %). CP3, I admit is having a tornado of a season and is richly deserving of all the kudos bestowed on him. Believe me as a Laker acolyte(more specifically Magic Johnson’s acolyte), praising another PG is tantamount to adultery but CP3 is single handedly destroying the Lig at a rate unheard of.

4) I hate to say this Mr.Blott, but your dismissal of Kobe’s rather fine season in 08-09 and ruling him out as a future MVP candidate reeks of half-baked research and flimsy excuses. A very-poorly executed hatchet job sir.

Posted by: Anand on April 18th, 2009 at 11:30 am

Thanks Anand for doing the digging on the numbers to show how biased this writer is.

Interesting numbers on Howard. I can remember when they played the Lakers back in December, with around 8 minutes left in the 4th: over a 4 minute stretch he hit every second free throw (3-6). But then he went 4-4 in the last minute to close out and win the game. I know his season percentages are low but from what I’ve seen he comes through in clutch time. I do realise that I’m basing my opinion on one game; does anyone have similar examples/stats for Howard’s late game performances?

Posted by: r.i.p_petrovic on April 18th, 2009 at 9:48 pm

A lot of people have all sorts of statistics that seemingly demonstrate that Kobe is great. None of these stats, however, have anything to do with making the Lakers win.

I think we all agree that a great player is one who will greatly improve his team’s ability to win games. With that being said, can someone please explain:
1) Why the Lakers were 23-25 (.479) with Kobe and no Shaq, 32-10 (.762) with Shaq and no Kobe, and 262-101 (.721) with both on the floor from 1998-2004?
2) Why the 07-08 Lakers went 25-11 with Bynum on the team, 5-5 in the gap between Bynum and Gasol, 22-4 with Gasol in the lineup, and 5-5 when Gasol missed games if Kobe was the main reason they won the West?
3) Why the Lakers’ best year in his time with the team was 1999-2000 (67-15), the same year Kobe missed his career-high amount of games in a season?
4) Why the Lakers were 111-111 with Kobe playing and a not-too-far-off 10-14 without him from 2004-2007? By the way, 14 of the 24 teams they played were .500 or above, so guess what the expected amount of wins for a .500 team was for those games?

I would like for anyone to show me any statistic that shows the Lakers win more games with Kobe than without him. It’s that simple.

Posted by: Zachariah Blott on April 19th, 2009 at 12:43 am

I say we put a PERMANENT moratorium on Zach Blott til he learns to actually do some UNBIASED research….oh wait, he won’t.

So can you get a real writer in here so we can forget that Blott is causing such an ink stain on the Net.

Posted by: Philip on April 19th, 2009 at 2:09 am

Oh, also, what was the siginificance of Kobe finally being inserted into the Lakers’ starting lineup as soon as Jackson arrived??? Oh, yeah, 3 STRAIGHT NBA TITLES

Get over it man. Kobe is a proven winner, and he has proven that he has grown up and become a better person in the last 5 years than Shaq has, that is for damn sure. And when he goes back to the Finals this year, and wins, then he will have gone to the Finals TWICE without Shaq. Which would leave him with the same number of titles (4) as Shaq within the same number of Finals appearances (5)

Posted by: Philip on April 19th, 2009 at 2:12 am

The bottom line is we know that Kobe can not win without a dominant front court, as Blott points out. Its difficult to argue against. Kobe is a great perimeter player, however he doesn’t have the passing ability or the intangibles to win without said front court.

Much of the discussion on Kobe is based on regurgitated narratives from the likes of Stephen A. Smith and Mike Wilbon who blindly assert he’s the best player, when stats and his history without Shaq and Gasol/Bynum do not back that up.

Kudos to Blott for pointing out and speaking the truth.

P.S. – just because someone says Kobe isn’t an MVP or the best player, it doesn’t follow that they’re Lakers or Kobe haters. People in LA ought to stop think that other fans even care about the Lakers. Most are just pointing out what is quite clear to the objective eye.

Posted by: Red on April 19th, 2009 at 2:39 am

This is a truly outrageous post, posted by an obvious kobe hater.

You talk about lebron not having any help?
So i’m guessing that mo williams is chopped liver?
Did he not make the allstar team as well?!

I sad to say that if this is the style of writing that is going to be presented in future by ETB, then i will take my reading somewhere else.

Horrible and biased.

Posted by: Justin on April 19th, 2009 at 11:08 am

Kobe’s not the best player in the game = outrageous bias?

Welcome to the bizarre world of Lakers fans, Zachariah.

Posted by: Red on April 19th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

Zack, it’s unfair to say Lakers are the same with or without Kobe due to situational factors. You can’t compare Kobe with a “good” frontcourt vs. Kobe without a “good” frontcourt and conclude that the Lakers are the same with and without Kobe. It’s like saying Boston won about 73% of games without Garnett (including the games he missed at the beginning of the season) yet ended up winning just 76% overall. These numbers show that without Garnett, they are just as good with and without Garnett. Does this mean Boston can afford to lose Garnett?

If you decide to use numbers, use statistics that present contrasting situations. In this case, you should want win % of teams without a good backcourt vs. Lakers’ win % without a good backcourt. This would be the only way to see Kobe’s impact.

Learn to use statistics correctly. Perhaps you need to go back to high school since this is all very basic.

- A fan of reason

Posted by: anonymous on April 19th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

I will admit that I am a biased fan of the game. I am biased toward players who noticeably improve a team’s ability to win. I love the heck out of Pete Maravich and can watch his highlight clips all day, but I can’t declare him an all-time NBA great because his teams didn’t win more games with him than without him. This applies to Bryant, as well. I’d still love to see a statistic that shows the Lakers win a higher percentage of games with him on the court than off when the other teammates remain intact.

People who are caught up in the lovefest for highlight real scorers tend to be the same people who are surprised that the Rockets are thoroughly taking care of business without Tracy McGrady and with a less-involved Yao Ming. I’m biased toward players like those on Houston who do a lot of the little things that manifest themselves into a higher winning percentage for the team.

Posted by: Zachariah Blott on April 19th, 2009 at 6:47 pm

1) I’m not a Lakers fan, I’m a Kobe/Lebron/Wade//Billups/Nuggets fan (also, quietly, I’m a huge Steve Francis fan)

2) Zach, 05-06 season: Bynum was still a bench scrub, and Kwame was Just bein’ Kwame. Lakers went 45-35 with Bryant in the lineup. They went 0-2 without him. There’s a winning stat for Kobe my friend. He took what otherwise would have been a lottery team to the playoffs.

3) Zach, you said “A lot of people have all sorts of statistics that seemingly demonstrate that Kobe is great.” Well you seemingly have a lot of stats that demonstrate he is no better than having Jason Richardson or Michael Redd in the backcourt. Stats aren’t the best way to quantify contributions to a team. Here’s another statistic for you: 3 – the number of years now that Kobe has been in the top 5 MVP votegetters. Does that mean jack all? Well, then that must mean that you know better than all the sportswriters and experts out there who consider Bryant to be MVP quality.

4) Here’s some more numbers for you. In that 25-11 stretch, Bynum only averaged 13pts and 10reb. Hardly dominating numbers. Kobe had a lot more to do with it than Bynum; just go back and read the game recaps. Kobe palys on the perimeter: any scoring presence inside the paint makes his job easier.
The 5-5 stretch between Bynum’s injury and the arrival of Gasol included 6 road games, and 5 of the losses were to formidable opponents. They had noone in the frontcourt (Kwame doesn’t count) and went up against the best in the West (SA, DAL, PHX) / best in the east (DET, CLE) and still came away with a 5-5 record.
In the 06-07 season, Kobe led the lakers to 30-21 record (with Kwame, Smush, Lamar,…) before Lamar went out with his shoulder injury and the Lakers had less talent in their lineup than the current Miami Heat. I can’t see how anyone else could have done any better in Kobe’s position. By the way, the Lakers finished with a winning record, 42-40.

5) No credit to Kobe for giving up a lot of the ball when Pau came to town? No credit for instantly gelling with Gasol to go 22-4 to win the Western Conference?

6) Bryant gets wide acclaim from his teammates, as well as other NBA players who call him one of, if not the best player in the world, and you go on and dismiss his contributions from the last few seasons based on win-loss numbers from Bryant’s first 3-4 years in the league when he only just turned 21? Get with the times Zach.

7) Zach, you also said “Why the Lakers were 111-111 with Kobe playing and a not-too-far-off 10-14 without him from 2004-2007?” The Lakers lineup was poor at best. Take Kobe off that team, put Brandon Roy in his place and you wont get much different numbers.

Saying a team can’t win without a dominating big man, is like saying that a car cant run without 4 tyres. Thats how basketball has been for as long as I can remember. Thats why the Heat’s record this season is significantly worse than it was the year they won the title with Shaq. Lebron has Big Z, who isn’t the best big man in the league, but is a very good center to have: Lebron is more than capable to catch (or steal – ala the famous triple double game) the rebounds that Big Z misses with his 6-9 bodybuilder frame.

Zach, you did not respond to any of “anonymous”‘s or “Anand”‘s comments which pointed out that you weren’t considering all of the facts in some instances.

Enough on this already. Back to the Playoffs.

By the way, your Blazers had a weak showing in their first playoff game. As much as I’d like to see the Rockets get through (just to prove how useless T-mac is), I still think Portland’s depth will get them through the first round.

Red – you should think before you speak. This isn’t a discussion of whether Kobe is the greatest player in the world, its a discussion of whether or not he should be considered an MVP candidate. Since you dont even know what the topic is, it’s fair to say you dont know what your talking about. I should also welcome you to the world of Blazer fans, where there’s plenty of hate for the Lakers these days. Aside from that, in your first post you made a good point – Kobe isn’t as good without a dominant big man. Nor is anyone! But he sure has done a good job while being the league’s media punching bag for years.

Posted by: r.i.p_petrovic on April 19th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

“anonymous” made a great argument about the stats you are using, and you completely dismissed him by saying “I’d still love to see a statistic that shows the Lakers win a higher percentage of games with him on the court than off when the other teammates remain intact.” Not impressed Zach.

It’s quite obvious that you simply dont like Bryant as a person.
I’m not exempt from bias; there are plenty of players I dont like personally. I admit that I think Shaq has the maturity of a teenager; but no matter how many articles I could write about how he underperformed (and pissed & moaned on the bench) when Wade tore his shoulder, players have always been judged by the results of the team they are leading. The only difference between you and me is that when I see Shaq, I remember the 4 titles, countless all-star appearances, and dominant style of play. When you see Kobe, you see the young, immature, selfish personality traits of Kobe. The same Kobe that developed an arrogance that goes hand in hand with a scorer’s mentality (see Allen Iverson). You don’t see the 3 rings, 5 finals appearances, scoring title, MVP trophy, 2nd highest score in NBA history, 4 straight games with 50+pts, etc.

I agree with your comment about Houston. Many underrated players like Scola/Landry/Battier/Hayes. Other than their X-factor Scola, I don’t think either of them is very talented offensively, which hurts the consistency of their offensive output (they’re good players, I’ve seen them score 15-20pts, just never twice in a row). Next game will be an interesting one. I’m still standing by Portland in 7.

On a side note, Billups just rocked the sh*t out of the Hornets. Pardon my english.

Posted by: r.i.p_petrovic on April 20th, 2009 at 2:29 am

@r.i.p.

When I say the best player in the game, I’m basically saying MVP as well. They should be one in the same. Now this hasn’t always happened, but it does in an ideal world. And it will this year.

And apparently you should be the one thinking before you write, because I never said Kobe simply isn’t as good without a dominant center – that much is obvious. I just restated what Zachariah said, which is that Kobe can’t nearly approach the same amount of a success without not a good frontcourt, but a great one.

The league’s punching bag? Please, the media has treated Kobe just fine and actually heaped tons of praise on him, the majority of it deserved. But again, this is just Lakers fans notoriously labeling anyone who doesn’t agree with them Kobe haters.

Posted by: Red on April 20th, 2009 at 6:08 am

Well seeing that you are an English teacher, let me put to you in these terms Mr.Blott:
1) Basketball isn’t a finite equation variable where the assumption of one variable (Kobe) to be zero (absent for a game), automatically means the other variables (Shaq, Gasol or Bynum, as the case may be) assume any greater significance. In fact, the “slack” (for lack of a better term) could have been picked up by any number of players on that team, attributed to an easier schedule, injuries on the opposing team etc. Maybe plugging that in your schedule “formula” would refine it further.

2)Are you even kidding me with that insane sample size comparison of 42 games w/out Shaq and 48 games with Shaq with 370 odd games when both players played? Isn’t that even a little bit odd to anyone else? I mean 222 games when Kobe played with 10-14 when Kobe hadn’t played in the post- Shaq era? Dude if you want to use any statistical data make sure the discrete data sample sizes are atleast in the same ball park. Any basketball statistician would tell you that’s a data-insufficient comparison that you’re making.

3) To be sure, yes I whole heartedly agree that Kobe forces up a a lot of conventionally “bad shots”. And I’m not going to be David Friedman-lite and argue that these are actually “good shots” for Kobe. Those are bad shots, period. The thing is everyone forces up bad shots. In a perfect world, wings would only shoot 3′s and drive to the rack. The beauty to me lies in the fact that while other preps-to-pros like KG, Jermaine, T-Mac seemingly withering away before our eyes (KG’s low block offense is practically extinct), Kobe’s still going strong despite making deep playoff runs for literally more than half his career. Maybe, those “bad shots” helped him extend his career.

4) For a guy who seemingly abhors “highlight real scorers”, Mr.Blott, you sure seem eager to heap credit onto one of the most incandescent scorers of all time in Shaq. He was also one of the most selfish scorers, “You don’t feed the Big Dog…” anyone?? To be sure that was his role and he performed it to perfection. And he is one of the most “rigid” players ever to play this game, simply surrounding him with All-Star talent won’t do. For a Shaq championship recipe:

a)Add Shaq and a transcedent swingman (Penny,Kobe Wade)

b) Empty a packet of “Rugged defenders” (Horace Grant, Darrell Armstrong, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, James Posey, Udonis Haslem et al)

c) Finally, pour a litre of “Dead eye shooters” (Dennis Scott, Nick Anderson, Glen Rice, Bob Horry,Jason Kapono, Antoine Walker).

Voila, championship. However deviate even slightly from this (adding a Malone or on a team with Nash and Amare) and the result is quite embarassing. Kobe, on the other hand, has shown he can get it done with Shaq AND Gasol as the primary nub of the Triangle.

5) Mr. Blott, it is Kobe’s role to be the featured scorer on this team and one of two scorers with Shaq. Since he has performed quite admirably well in both of these roles, it is an act bordering on stupidity to label Kobe as a simple “highlight real scorer”.

Posted by: Anand on April 20th, 2009 at 6:17 am

Interestingly Mr. Blott, you claim to be a fan of the Rockets players who do lots of little things, which I’m assuming includes playing defense and hustling. Yet, you have seemingly no compunctions in comparing the greatest perimeter defender of all time (Pip) with an above average (at best) post player (Odom). See it is this kind of blind cherry-picking stat-based comparison that gives rise to our(everyone except Red) assertion that you have no idea what you’re talking about, sir.

Posted by: Anand on April 20th, 2009 at 6:27 am

Stat crunching articles never do it for me. It too easy to cherry pick stats in support of your argument and that is exactly what this author did here.

This reads more like a sports’ forum post then it does an article. It is highly biased, flawed in its research and has absolutely no player scouting in it. Just stats, more stats and outrageous claims supported by his cherry-picked stats.

Such a heavy reliance on numbers reeks of a author who cannot possibly properly rate players on the basketball court. How can anyone take it seriously when he never once mentions how the players play ON THE COURT?

Like I said above, it reads like a forum post.

Posted by: ibejeph on April 20th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

Red – I agree with you on what you said about Kobe not being as productive without a dominant center/frontcourt (my mistake, I thought you said center). All I’m saying is that I’m yet to see a guard that has been.

Apologies for the misunderstanding Red, I’m not labelling you a Kobe hater, I’m labelling Zach (well he pretty much labelled himself) a Kobe hater. I guess the perception I got of Kobe being the media’s “punching bag” could be a result of my reading/viewing selection. Lately Kobe has got very good treatment in the media (except for this article), but in the season before the “Gasol days” it felt like a lot of criticism was directed his way. I guess there’s only one way to stop the hate: to win.

I’m not a Lakers fan. 15 more for Denver. Lebron for 2009MVP. I just hope the same thing doesn’t happen to him as what happened to Dirk back in 07 (receiving the trophy in a 3-1 first round hole against the “Nellie-ballers” – now that was a frown that not even an MVP trophy could turn upside down)

Posted by: r.i.p_petrovic on April 20th, 2009 at 6:27 pm

r.i.p. – I definitely agree Kobe took a lot of unnecessary heat before the Gasol trade, mainly stemming from his cold personality (and least thats the impression every gets) and the assault trial. Once he got Gasol to play with and started winning, the media has been pretty good with him.

Kobe’s a divisive guy, and that probably influences EVERYONE’s view of him, not matter how hard one tries to be unbiased.

I just think that he’s not the best player anymore yet so many seem to speak as if its obvous that Kobe is still the top dawg (he’s a clear 2 IMO). Blott’s article brings up some important point as to why that’s the case.

Posted by: Red on April 21st, 2009 at 8:22 am

Man, try to stick in one white girl’s ass and everyone holds a grudge… damn.

Posted by: Dougie on April 21st, 2009 at 5:25 pm

red – I agree with what you said about how too many people make unsubstantiated proclamations that Bryant is unquestionably the best (mainly Lakers fans); I must say that I haven’t met many Cleveland fans that are quick to dismiss Kobe’s legitimacy for a significant mention in the MVP race. Any way you look at it, it’s hard to separate the candidates. In my eyes, Lebron deserves the trophy this year because he led the Cavaliers to the leagues best record without as much talent and depth as Bryant’s Lakers possess. Similarly, Bryant deserved it last year for leading the Lakers to the best record in a very tough western conference, making adjustments along the way for the departure of Bynum / arrival of Gasol, all with a finger that requires surgery (surgery which he negated in order to help the US win gold).

Unlike Blott, you seem to have a very unbiased and objective opinion. ETB is one of the few websites where I can find people who I can actually discuss basketball with, and who discuss rather than dismiss others input (I’m talking about your failure to acknowledge Anand’s and anonymous’s comments, Blott).

The one thing that I didn’t like about Lebron this season is the growth of his ego (which comes with being widely considered the best player in the league, and which all great players eventually learn to control). A good example of it was the end of season blowout of the Celtics. The taunting celebrations (bowling/dancing/taking photos or whatever it is they are doing these days to celebrate); Lebron usually shows more professionalism than this. Ray Allen certainly wasn’t impressed.

Posted by: r.i.p_petrovic on April 21st, 2009 at 10:02 pm

Zach, have you read any of David Friedman’s writing at “20 Second Timeout”? I advise you to. If you go there and click on Kobe Bryant on the left, you’ll get all his articles on Kobe.

By the way, to say that the Lakers are nearly as good without Kobe 2004-2007 as with them by saying they are 111-111 with him, 10-14 without is crazy, that is nowhere near a good example. The two numbers are SO far apart. If you expand 10-14 to 222 games you get: 93-129, which is quite a bit worse. Not to mention they would have gone worse without him over that amount of time, because in short amount of times even Smush Parker can be amazing, but to rely on him for consistant scoring game after game, no way. You also fail to mention that in the 2004-2005 season they were .500, until Kobe got injured.

Posted by: lakeshow on April 21st, 2009 at 10:04 pm

agreed, the idea kobe has just been sold for years and everyone had to do so in this market.
Watched an episode of TNT OVERTIME in the last years?

The nba is all about buisness and has always been with stern.
The nba sold jordan as goat and rightfully so because he was.
Problem is, that after he left, buisness suffered
magnificiently and the thing that they did, was sell a new superstar in kobe.
But kobe didn’t become what everyone hoped, so justification is a bit more complicated nowadays.
Wait a year or two and the nba will focus on james as the future goat and selling this idea will begin.
They want to sell history, seeing babe ruth play or muhammed ali boxing or jordan playing,and they want to do so every year.
So they have to sell all kind of different “truth”.

Posted by: marc on April 22nd, 2009 at 1:30 am

Thank you Mr. Blott for actually writing what a lot of people think of Kobe. I hate how commentators are always on Kobe’s nuts. I do believe he is a great scorer, but he’s not the great player that the media makes him out to be. He is always going to try to be like Mike, but he’s not going to get there.

Posted by: billy on April 22nd, 2009 at 11:57 am

Great article, apparently opinion is greater then facts for many of these responders.

No one is saying Kobe isn’t a great player, he’s just not as great when you actually look to the numbers.

Posted by: Gabriel on April 22nd, 2009 at 1:16 pm

He’s going to retire as one of the top 10 players of all time. Deal with it.

Posted by: Rodrieguez on October 24th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

What also should be mentioned is how Kobe cost the Lakers probably 2 more Championships by forcing Shaq to get traded. He didn’t feel he needed Shaq to win. But Shaq went and showed Kobe it was he who didn’t need Kobe to win the Championship. Had those two guys not been big cry babies that laker team would go down as the greatest in history. As it sits now they’re probably 4 or 5 on the list.

Posted by: Gabe on February 1st, 2012 at 2:08 pm

Empty the Bench

The season's over.