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	<title>Comments on: Revisionist History &#8211; What if Boston Hadn&#8217;t Traded for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen?</title>
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	<link>http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/</link>
	<description>The season&#039;s over.</description>
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		<title>By: russ</title>
		<link>http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/comment-page-1/#comment-56650</link>
		<dc:creator>russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 00:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>health and defense would be the only issue with that pre-kg line up.  if pierce (or whoever the c&#039;s would get for pierce in a trade) and big al are healthy, along with the #5 pick, the team would have no problem scoring.  the celtics are who they are now because they have the league&#039;s best defender.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>health and defense would be the only issue with that pre-kg line up.  if pierce (or whoever the c&#8217;s would get for pierce in a trade) and big al are healthy, along with the #5 pick, the team would have no problem scoring.  the celtics are who they are now because they have the league&#8217;s best defender.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/comment-page-1/#comment-56569</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/#comment-56569</guid>
		<description>when they traded al jefferson for KG, i was actually a little disappointed because i had fallen in love with A.J. and felt that the Celtics were better off keeping him since his numbers were pretty much the same, if not better, than KG&#039;s. Plus, he was younger, cheaper, and he was ours.

But I was wrong.

The difference between KG and Al Jefferson is so vast they might as well be playing different sports. KG is so much better than Big Al that it&#039;s not even funny. KG is the best defender in the league in my book, and his passing and rebounding are superb too. No, he&#039;s not the scoring threat that Big Al is and he won&#039;t take that big shot in crunch time, but what he does do in crunch time is grab every big rebound and play lock down defense. 

As for the &quot;arrogance&quot; thing, let&#039;s not blow it out of proportion, okay? Every player in the nba is arrogant. they all punch their chests, pop their shirts, hang on the rim too long, etc. it&#039;s just that people HATE when champions do it (especially champions from boston.)

and yes, i think KG clapped his hands in one point guard&#039;s face this season and it was splashed all over the internet and ESPN. Truthfully, since everyone in the league started whining about their arrogance, the C&#039;s really have toned it down. they rarely even complain about foul calls anymore. it would be great if somebody noticed this and pointed it out, since everybody is so quick to point out the negative stuff.

as for the &quot;what if&quot; lineup, it looks nice on paper, but man, was that a bad team when they had a very similar lineup pre-KG. so even adding Jeff Green to the mix, and taking into consideration another year of seasoning for the c&#039;s younger players, this is a bad, bad basketball team that is incapable of playing playoff-level defense and seriously bereft of leadership. (yes i love paul pierce, but as a leader, by himself, he was never able to rally a team together like KG)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>when they traded al jefferson for KG, i was actually a little disappointed because i had fallen in love with A.J. and felt that the Celtics were better off keeping him since his numbers were pretty much the same, if not better, than KG&#8217;s. Plus, he was younger, cheaper, and he was ours.</p>
<p>But I was wrong.</p>
<p>The difference between KG and Al Jefferson is so vast they might as well be playing different sports. KG is so much better than Big Al that it&#8217;s not even funny. KG is the best defender in the league in my book, and his passing and rebounding are superb too. No, he&#8217;s not the scoring threat that Big Al is and he won&#8217;t take that big shot in crunch time, but what he does do in crunch time is grab every big rebound and play lock down defense. </p>
<p>As for the &#8220;arrogance&#8221; thing, let&#8217;s not blow it out of proportion, okay? Every player in the nba is arrogant. they all punch their chests, pop their shirts, hang on the rim too long, etc. it&#8217;s just that people HATE when champions do it (especially champions from boston.)</p>
<p>and yes, i think KG clapped his hands in one point guard&#8217;s face this season and it was splashed all over the internet and ESPN. Truthfully, since everyone in the league started whining about their arrogance, the C&#8217;s really have toned it down. they rarely even complain about foul calls anymore. it would be great if somebody noticed this and pointed it out, since everybody is so quick to point out the negative stuff.</p>
<p>as for the &#8220;what if&#8221; lineup, it looks nice on paper, but man, was that a bad team when they had a very similar lineup pre-KG. so even adding Jeff Green to the mix, and taking into consideration another year of seasoning for the c&#8217;s younger players, this is a bad, bad basketball team that is incapable of playing playoff-level defense and seriously bereft of leadership. (yes i love paul pierce, but as a leader, by himself, he was never able to rally a team together like KG)</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/comment-page-1/#comment-56558</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/#comment-56558</guid>
		<description>The bottom line is that the Celtics unit you describe above would not be successful because they would not have played defense. Assuming Paul Pierce stayed -- even though he said he would have preferred a trade -- the combination would not be defensively sound enough to compete for anything close to an NBA title. Despite his offensive prowess, Al Jefferson is still below average on the defensive level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bottom line is that the Celtics unit you describe above would not be successful because they would not have played defense. Assuming Paul Pierce stayed &#8212; even though he said he would have preferred a trade &#8212; the combination would not be defensively sound enough to compete for anything close to an NBA title. Despite his offensive prowess, Al Jefferson is still below average on the defensive level.</p>
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		<title>By: jp</title>
		<link>http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/comment-page-1/#comment-56557</link>
		<dc:creator>jp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/#comment-56557</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure the author knows how futile the &quot;what if&quot; game is...and you read it anyways so really...how bad was it? get off his back. interesting article! if you dont want to play the always-fun although pointless game of what-if...dont bother reading an article entitled &quot;what if...&quot; do you think we really care to read you complain...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure the author knows how futile the &#8220;what if&#8221; game is&#8230;and you read it anyways so really&#8230;how bad was it? get off his back. interesting article! if you dont want to play the always-fun although pointless game of what-if&#8230;dont bother reading an article entitled &#8220;what if&#8230;&#8221; do you think we really care to read you complain&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Spencer</title>
		<link>http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/comment-page-1/#comment-56464</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/#comment-56464</guid>
		<description>KG&#039;s &quot;anything is possible!&quot; in the post-game, on-court interview at the NBA Finals was more contrived than Paul Pierce feigning serious injury every time he hits the floor; that&#039;s saying a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KG&#8217;s &#8220;anything is possible!&#8221; in the post-game, on-court interview at the NBA Finals was more contrived than Paul Pierce feigning serious injury every time he hits the floor; that&#8217;s saying a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/comment-page-1/#comment-56439</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 07:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/#comment-56439</guid>
		<description>Wow, wow, wow where the hell do I begin?  First off I am glad a few people have caught on to how stupid this argument is.  I question whether you are even a true Celtics fan?  The brash swagger that this team has is nothing compared to the Celtics of the 80&#039;s.  You think KG is bad maybe you never watched Larry Bird play.  Guess what, he was a sonofabitch who got in everyones face.  But just like KG he demanded the same intensity from his teammates and he got it.

To think that a team with the 2nd worst record in the league and possession of an 18 game losing streak would actually be competitive is delusional thinking.

Perhaps you simply prefer losing and wish the Celtics still sucked because then you can wallow in your loathe and self pity reminding yourself how great of a fan you are.

The only good player sent over for the KG trade was Al Jefferson.  Sorry but Gomes, Green, and Telfair either can&#039;t play defense or can&#039;t play at all.

Tony Allen is stiff, as is Szczerbiak.  Tony play well for a short stretch of games but that was it.  He sucks, plain and simple.

And anyone who followed the team knows that we were going to draft Yi and not Jeff Green.  And that Pierce would was going to demand a trade if we didn&#039;t acquire veteran talent.

Yea we would have had some young talent.  But guess what, teams with young talent simply don&#039;t win championships in this league.  You need veterans who can play defense.  Which we wouldn&#039;t have had.

I could keep going on about how ridiculous this article is but I don&#039;t have the time to refute every single stupid point you made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, wow, wow where the hell do I begin?  First off I am glad a few people have caught on to how stupid this argument is.  I question whether you are even a true Celtics fan?  The brash swagger that this team has is nothing compared to the Celtics of the 80&#8242;s.  You think KG is bad maybe you never watched Larry Bird play.  Guess what, he was a sonofabitch who got in everyones face.  But just like KG he demanded the same intensity from his teammates and he got it.</p>
<p>To think that a team with the 2nd worst record in the league and possession of an 18 game losing streak would actually be competitive is delusional thinking.</p>
<p>Perhaps you simply prefer losing and wish the Celtics still sucked because then you can wallow in your loathe and self pity reminding yourself how great of a fan you are.</p>
<p>The only good player sent over for the KG trade was Al Jefferson.  Sorry but Gomes, Green, and Telfair either can&#8217;t play defense or can&#8217;t play at all.</p>
<p>Tony Allen is stiff, as is Szczerbiak.  Tony play well for a short stretch of games but that was it.  He sucks, plain and simple.</p>
<p>And anyone who followed the team knows that we were going to draft Yi and not Jeff Green.  And that Pierce would was going to demand a trade if we didn&#8217;t acquire veteran talent.</p>
<p>Yea we would have had some young talent.  But guess what, teams with young talent simply don&#8217;t win championships in this league.  You need veterans who can play defense.  Which we wouldn&#8217;t have had.</p>
<p>I could keep going on about how ridiculous this article is but I don&#8217;t have the time to refute every single stupid point you made.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/comment-page-1/#comment-56417</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 04:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/#comment-56417</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve just described the team that lost 19 straight + Jeff Green.  

The Celts would be terrible if they didn&#039;t do the trades, they&#039;d be on the level of Minnesota/Seattle with all that &#039;young talent&#039;.  

Pierce would be traded, Ainge and Pierce said as much themselves, Doc would be gone after another failure of a season, Ainge would either be gone or coaching the team.  

Also, your lineup isn&#039;t accurate, Pierce is traded, they would have drafted Yi instead of Jeff Green, Rondo/West would be yanked in and out of the lineup, Green and Telfair stink so they&#039;re probably replaced by better talent.  Still this would just be a horrible team.

As for your KG commment, did you watch any of the crap he did in Minny?  He was clapping his hands in Steve Nash&#039;s face back at the beginning of the decade.  This is not some new act he&#039;s doing, he&#039;s always been like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve just described the team that lost 19 straight + Jeff Green.  </p>
<p>The Celts would be terrible if they didn&#8217;t do the trades, they&#8217;d be on the level of Minnesota/Seattle with all that &#8216;young talent&#8217;.  </p>
<p>Pierce would be traded, Ainge and Pierce said as much themselves, Doc would be gone after another failure of a season, Ainge would either be gone or coaching the team.  </p>
<p>Also, your lineup isn&#8217;t accurate, Pierce is traded, they would have drafted Yi instead of Jeff Green, Rondo/West would be yanked in and out of the lineup, Green and Telfair stink so they&#8217;re probably replaced by better talent.  Still this would just be a horrible team.</p>
<p>As for your KG commment, did you watch any of the crap he did in Minny?  He was clapping his hands in Steve Nash&#8217;s face back at the beginning of the decade.  This is not some new act he&#8217;s doing, he&#8217;s always been like this.</p>
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		<title>By: Classless Concepts</title>
		<link>http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/comment-page-1/#comment-56416</link>
		<dc:creator>Classless Concepts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 04:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/#comment-56416</guid>
		<description>This is probably THE most inexplicable piece of writing on the Celtics.  Ever.  The reader comments that follow it are even more head shaking.  

Playing the &quot;what if&quot; game is silly in itself, but to declare yourself a fan of a team that lost 18 in a row rather than the current one? To say &quot;The Celts had youth, athleticism, personality and explosiveness at every position&quot; in 2007-08?  Do you watch basketball?  You got to be kidding me, right?  

&quot;I was a bigger fan of the Boston Celtics two years ago before they were arrogantly strutting their championship stuff in arenas across the country&quot;  

This is the NBA, name one recent champion that hasn&#039;t been &quot;arrogant&quot;.  Between Miami&#039;s gigantic championship rings, Detroit carrying around &quot;championship belts&quot;, and Shaq simply being Shaq (which is 100% arrogant), that leaves only the Spurs as your Classy Champions.  And nobody likes them.  

Finally, your issues about Garnett are simply stupid.  He&#039;s an over the top personality, but nothing is contrived.  You also need to remember that simply his presence on this team turned your &quot;explosive and exciting&quot; young C&#039;s into a tough, defensive minded unit.  Rondo, Powe, Davis, Perkins all would rot away in basketball mediocrity if that trade wasn&#039;t made.  Either that, or Pierce would have shot himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is probably THE most inexplicable piece of writing on the Celtics.  Ever.  The reader comments that follow it are even more head shaking.  </p>
<p>Playing the &#8220;what if&#8221; game is silly in itself, but to declare yourself a fan of a team that lost 18 in a row rather than the current one? To say &#8220;The Celts had youth, athleticism, personality and explosiveness at every position&#8221; in 2007-08?  Do you watch basketball?  You got to be kidding me, right?  </p>
<p>&#8220;I was a bigger fan of the Boston Celtics two years ago before they were arrogantly strutting their championship stuff in arenas across the country&#8221;  </p>
<p>This is the NBA, name one recent champion that hasn&#8217;t been &#8220;arrogant&#8221;.  Between Miami&#8217;s gigantic championship rings, Detroit carrying around &#8220;championship belts&#8221;, and Shaq simply being Shaq (which is 100% arrogant), that leaves only the Spurs as your Classy Champions.  And nobody likes them.  </p>
<p>Finally, your issues about Garnett are simply stupid.  He&#8217;s an over the top personality, but nothing is contrived.  You also need to remember that simply his presence on this team turned your &#8220;explosive and exciting&#8221; young C&#8217;s into a tough, defensive minded unit.  Rondo, Powe, Davis, Perkins all would rot away in basketball mediocrity if that trade wasn&#8217;t made.  Either that, or Pierce would have shot himself.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/comment-page-1/#comment-56355</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/#comment-56355</guid>
		<description>No way Gerald Green is still on that team, no matter its incarnation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No way Gerald Green is still on that team, no matter its incarnation.</p>
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		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/comment-page-1/#comment-56330</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.emptythebench.com/2009/01/15/revisionist-history-what-if-boston-hadnt-traded-for-kevin-garnett-and-ray-allen/#comment-56330</guid>
		<description>interesting post, i too loved Big Al and the rest of the kids pre-KG/Ray, despite the losses, but i think it is a HUGE stretch to assume that they would be a playoff team by now with that roster.  pierce would have most likely forced a trade, Tony Allen &amp; Gerald Green have yet to prove they can be anything close to reliable in this league, and there would be zero size beyond Perk + Al.  

i continuously think back to 2001, wondering what would have happened if they kept Joe Johnson instead of Kedrick, and drafted Tony Parker or Gilbert or Gerald Wallace instead of Joe Forte (ugh)...  and let&#039;s not forget in 04 if Ainge had the chance he would have drafted Robert Freakin Swift and we never would have gotten Big Al in the first place.  

but playing &#039;what if&#039; is fun, though sometimes infuriating.  no complaints here with how things turned out.  now, all i can ask for is more Bill Walker.  I&#039;d rather see him in there than Baby or TA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>interesting post, i too loved Big Al and the rest of the kids pre-KG/Ray, despite the losses, but i think it is a HUGE stretch to assume that they would be a playoff team by now with that roster.  pierce would have most likely forced a trade, Tony Allen &amp; Gerald Green have yet to prove they can be anything close to reliable in this league, and there would be zero size beyond Perk + Al.  </p>
<p>i continuously think back to 2001, wondering what would have happened if they kept Joe Johnson instead of Kedrick, and drafted Tony Parker or Gilbert or Gerald Wallace instead of Joe Forte (ugh)&#8230;  and let&#8217;s not forget in 04 if Ainge had the chance he would have drafted Robert Freakin Swift and we never would have gotten Big Al in the first place.  </p>
<p>but playing &#8216;what if&#8217; is fun, though sometimes infuriating.  no complaints here with how things turned out.  now, all i can ask for is more Bill Walker.  I&#8217;d rather see him in there than Baby or TA.</p>
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