Empty the Bench

Steve Nash is a two time MVP

I think the fact that Nash won back-to-back MVPs is exactly why he is overrated. For a guy to do that, IMO, he should not be such a defensive liability (as the author points out), and at the very least he should have at least made one Finals appearance. When you look at the incredible amount of hugely talented players Nash has been surrounded with for the last 8-10 years or so, the fact that he’s never been able to take any of those teams to the Finals is a huge, huge argument against how good he really is.

He was teamed with Dirk, Antawn Jamison, Josh Howard, Antoine Walker, Nick Van Exel and hardly won any playoff games at all with that team. Then with all the guys he’s been paired with in Phoenix he still has yet to even reach the Finals. His leaving Dallas as a free agent and them suddenly going to the Finals afterwards doesn’t help his credibility either.

He’s obviously a great player, no doubt, but I have to feel that a guy who is supposed to be so legendary for making his teammates better, wouldn’t a player like that be winning championships if you surrounded him with guys who are already All Star talents? After all, if you can’t raise the game of All Star teammates to a championship level, how much better are you really making them?

steve nash is cold in basketball and there is nothing wrong with him. he is perfectly fine. he’s just stressed from the games and needs to just sit down and relax. then he’ll be just fine. trust me. that’s what i do when i’m stressed about a basketball game. i relax and then the skills just come to me. let him rest for a while.

Michael Jordan was totally overrated when he was with the Wizards. Greatest basketball player ever? As if!

I felt kinda bad for that guy in “Pumping Iron.”

Hey basketbawful-

If this were an article about how he might not deserve the MVPs, we’ve seen that before. Aside from all of that, I’m saying Steve Nash is overrated even when he’s not in the MVP race (as he shouldn’t be considered one of the top five candidates for the award this season).

The main point we come to here, which I’m not sure I’ve seen anywhere before, is that the Phoenix Suns CAN’T win an NBA title BECAUSE of Steve Nash.

“steve nash is cold in basketball and there is nothing wrong with him. he is perfectly fine. he’s just stressed from the games and needs to just sit down and relax. then he’ll be just fine. trust me. that’s what i do when i’m stressed about a basketball game. i relax and then the skills just come to me. let him rest for a while.

Posted by: Chasidy Gobert”

You’re not in the NBA. Nash’s expectations are a tad higher than people’s basketball expectations of you. And relax? They’re in the Western Conference: every game is important. No time to relax.

His teammates need to pick up his slack on D, or they’re not going anywhere this year: period.

Nash is a very unique player in several respects:

*that rare 2-time mvp who hasn’t sniffed a final

*that rare 2-time mvp with all-star caliber players at multiple position who gets all the credit for their performances

*that rare 2-time mvp who yields career scoring nights to steve blake (you didn’t even have to use the baron davis example. take a look at how many bums have set career highs against nash)

*that rare 2-time mvp who gets all the credit for teammates’ success yet very little if any blame for their failure to ever progress out of the west.

*can you imagine if ANY other big name has Marion, Amare, and Barbosa on his team and got taken 7 games by the Lakers 2 years back? If LeBron or Kobe couldn’t make the fnals with that lineup, what’s the over/under on how many columnists would be salivating to pen poison pieces about them? Yet when Nash fails, hardly a peep. In fact, Marc Stein at espn actually wrote glowingly of Nash after playoff LOSSES on multiple occasions! Uncanny.

*Nash isn’t even the best pg in Suns history (KJ was better, with less talent around him until Barkley arrived, at which point KJ was approaching the downside of his career).

Excellent article. People may agree or disagree, but you raise some worthwhile points and allow people to take a side pro or con. That is good work.

Personal take — Nash is so far ahead of the curve offensively (18-11-4, while shooting 51% overall and44% from 3) that even poor defense at the PG spot diminishes him only slightly. I mean, who are your good PG defenders? Not a long list.

I will say that the one thing that always struck me as odd is that people vote for Nash for MVP and then vote for Amare and Marion as first-team all-NBA. Um, they have THREE of the best 5 guys in the league!?!? Are they 80 and 2 on the year?

What would you say about a former MVP that averaged only 15 points and 4 assists per game? Would you say that player wasn’t good enough to win MVP?

What if I told you that player was Bill Russell?

Over rated? Are you kiding me?

nash has always been a defensive liability, but thats no new information, by the way i doubt there are many pgs in the league who pick up more charges per game than nash, or know how to play better team D. Nash is the most unathletic and weakest players in the league, his small body can’t bang with the bigger guards, and his slow feet keep him from staying with the quicks. What’s amazing is how he still runs an offense as well as he does.

Leandrinho, which means “Little Leandro,” is an old nickname from Barbosa’s days in Brazil.

And as I said above:

“There’s the obvious caveat here: Steve Nash is a great player. He’s unquestionably the catalyst which has transformed Phoenix’s offense into the best and most exciting in the NBA over the last four seasons. In terms of smooth passing skills, court vision, ball-handling and pure shooting Nash is the best player in the league.”

Hold up steve nash is cold hes the best point gaurd since Magic.Hes got the wettest shot in the NBA GET OFF HIS BACK.

The season before the Nash came to Phoenix in 03-04 the Suns held opposing teams to 97.9 points per. They’ve given up over 102 points per in each season since.

Meanwhile, the Dallas Mavericks gave up 100.8 (second-most in the NBA) in 03-04, Nash’s last season. In the four seasons since his departure they’ve given up only 96.8 per, 93.1 per, 92.8 and 95.1 per while climbing into the NBA’s top ten in defensive efficiency. They also made it to the NBA Finals in 2006, something they never did before Nash left as a free agent. And the Suns haven’t made it there with Nash either. In the playoffs you can’t just run and gun, the games slow down to half-court basketball and making defensive stops becomes critical. With Nash on the floor that’s hard to do.

How many NBA titles are won in the regular season?

Since when can one player win the game, Steve Nash is the best point guard in the league right now. Nash is an mvp because he makes everyone around him much better. Have u ever sit down and seen how the suns play without him in the floor. He will shock the sceptics out there when we sweep the lakers and win the championship

The “did he deserve those MVPs” argument is certainly touched on — briefly — but I think the main crux of Andrew’s well-thought out editorial is whether or not Nash’s well-known defensive liabilities are going to play a big part in holding the Suns back from winning a title. (If they somehow make it to the NBA Finals this season, and face the Detroit Pistons, I say “yes.”)

And I think it’s also important to note, as Andrew has a few times, that this editorial does not in any way demean his prolific *offensive* talents, efficiency, and leadership.

I guess this all comes down to what an MVP means.

For me, it is being “the man” in your team. Being the leader and an unquestionable threat on the floor. Nash was like that for the Suns during his first year, when he transformed the team into the offensive machine it has been for a while now.

And remember, the MVP is for the best player for the REGULAR SEASON not the playoffs.

Steve Nash was like that during the first year, but I really don’t think he deserved it the second time around. There were just much better players during the following season

Who does Andrew Thell think he is? He is about to say that the Phoenix Suns can’t win an NBA Championship without Steve Nash? Nash is the leader of their team, without him, they would not be one of the top contenders in the west. He deserved to win his to back to back MVP awards. Just look at the Suns’ records before he came back to Phoenix. The 2003-2004 season, Phoenix had a 29-53 record. The next year, which was Nash’s return, they had the league best and franchise tying record of 62-20. All because of Steve Nash. In the 05-06 season, their record was 54-28 because of the absence of Amare Stoudemire. The next season, 06-07, they had the second best record in the NBA with 61 wins and 21 losses. And this year, they are still right up there with the top elite teams in the west. Anyone to call Steve Nash overrated and not deserving his two MVP honors clearly does not know what they are talking about.

steve nash overrated??? I don’t think so, I think he deserved MVP coz phoenix without him(whenever he injured) was like a ship without a captain. They Sink!!!!!!!!!

“Does that sound like an MVP? Again, he’s a great player, but an MVP to me is a guy with a complete game who does it on both ends of the floor — not a guy who consistently hurts your chances of winning with his play on one end. A player like Chris Paul, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett or Kobe Bryant (who was better than Nash in each of his MVP seasons).”

Sorry Andrew, the part where you wrote how Steve Nash doesn’t “sound like an MVP” confused me. It made me think you were writing about Steve Nash not deserving to be the MVP.

dude mvps are voted on by sportswriters, so he can be a two time mvp and overrated. the reason he is an mvp is becuase he is overrated. I think he should have won the first, but Kobe Bryant was the clear choice in his second year. If u recall, that was the year Kobe lit up the league averaging 35.4 ppg, while taking a team that started Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, AND luke walton to 45 wins out west. The man broke records, had 81 in one game, and outscored the mavs 62-61 in the three quarters he played that game. If thats not an mvp, i dont no what it

The Suns look worse and worse every game with this Shaq trade. You can’t change a run and gun offense to a half court style and expect success in one third of a season. What if the Suns don’t do well for the remainder of the season and end up a low playoff seed. If they’re knocked out quickly even if they stretch it to seven games, will people start to give Shawn Marion more credit to how valuable he was for those teams? Steve Nash definitely has had more than ample support his whole career. Something that Kobe has lacked for the last few seasons until this point. Phoenix will see more of the same in the playoffs from the Lakers that they saw in that game last week. We can play any style of basketball they choose to now with our revamped offense. Basically, we once again have the Suns number and their short run at the top of the Pacific is over.

an article from a pro-Bryant-sh*t guy…

tsk tsk tsk…

pure bias… your an a-hole…

Steve Nash is a two-time MVP.. Period. That’s why he was chosen to be the MVP and won back-to-back is because he makes bsketball very easy on his team. He makes his teammates very good and at that time they had the best record. That’s an MVP. and Phoenix is not a defensive team, they are an offensive team, so what will you expect?

In reply to Andrew Thell - “How many NBA titles are won in the regular season?”
The MVP award is based solely on the regular season which shows the Suns as having the best record over the past 3 season. I agree MVPs should take their teams to the finals (although their have been some fantastic players not get there), but MVPs are all about making their teammates better. Do you think Stoudamire or Marion would be better players playing with Iverson (or to a lesser extent Baron Davis)? I think not. Both would be having lesser numbers (and most likely requested a trade to a team that would be able to make them “the man”.

First I think youhave a point in saying that Nash has problems containing other point guards, but I think he still is a worthy MVP, he is the reason the Phoenix suns went from nobody to the best show in sneakers, he is the engine of that transformation. Seriously you have to admit they have been the most fun team to watch in the last few years.
Also the argument that the mavs have improved their defense is hard to correlate with Nash, he couold be part of the reason but also, very important in their defensive improvement is Avery Johnson as a coach… remember he was in San Antonio and he always talked about improving the D.
As for the suns steve always risks his body taking charges on D and also he has a mental toughnes that you surely would want in the clutch… remeber the doble OT classis vs the mavs last season, anyone? So part of the defensive problems of the suns are the lack of understanding in the rotations and the lack of boxing out poeple not allowing second chance points and that is a team effort not a one man thing.
Anyway he IS a 2 time MVP and you can argue what you want but he’s got the tropies.

Um, Kobe better then Nash in both Nash’s MVP seasons? I am sorry, but which player’s team didn’t even make it into the playoffs in 2004-2005? (Hint, it wasn’t Phoenix!!) Also, which team won the series between Phoenix and L.A. in the playoffs and made it to the conference finals to lose by 6? (Hint, it wasn’t L.A.!!). One last thing: Baskedball is a TEAM game. Meaning even if one player scores 81 points in a game, amazing as that is, it doesn’t change the fact that his team finished only 2 games above 500 and 7th in their conference.

Conclusion: Kobe Bryant cannot be considered ranked above Steve Nash for the MVP award in both 04-05 and 05-06. No way, no how.

give Nash his due…

this year, i won’t be having any problem if Kobe/Lebron/Garnett (Kobe leading) will be the MVP because their individual and team stat/performance shows it… either of the three will win the MVP this year…

but saying Nash is overrated and that Kobe is better in Nash’ MVP year… either your blind, your a moron/stupid (like Kerr), or your just playing silly…

Nash deserves his MVP, Dirk deserves his MVP…

and You don’t have the right to discredit them…

How are team stats such as ppg against relevant?

Of course teams will score less ppg against Dallas now - they don’t run as much - and Nash isn’t the only personnel change on that team.

Lots of All-Star teammates? Seen them try and score with Nash off the floor? Billups has had all-star team mates in Hamilton, and the Wallaces’.

It is obvious he is not the most individually talented but another measure of MVP is how good is the team without him and Phoenix would suck - remember Marbury and the Suns. How many games did the Suns improve in Nash’s first year? Nash would have one of the highest +/- numbers in the league for time on court.

Call him over rated if you want - but if I had a choice to watch any team in the league, I’m picking a Nash led Phoenix.

if MVP’s are based on the players performance on both ends of the court, then sports writers should be considering BRUCE BOWEN as well don’t you think? i mean, the guy can shoot (especially on corners), oh and yeah, one of the toughest defenders in the league.

but nash overrated? i don’t think so.

from Andrew Thell’s post “Nash is great. Kobe is better.”

i totally agree that kobe is better, hell, he’s even the best player in the league. but nash, nash is the MVP.

…WildYams…your stupid…you keep talking about the fact that nash won 2 mvps and thats why hes overrated cuz his team has never made it to the finals…well i dno how much basketball u rly watch, but MVP has nothing to do with playoff stats or final stats…its a regular season award

“After all, if you can’t raise the game of All Star teammates to a championship level, how much better are you really making them?”

are you serious?
the first season nash was named MVP…every other PHX started had career highs in alot of categories…and EVERYONE knows that PHX got robbed in the playoffs the second year nash won mvp by the amare stoudemire suspension and if that stupid rule that u can get off your bench (even to helpa teammate) or else u get suspended wasnt there, PHX would have won that series against SA

and the fact that dallas made the finals without nash? i guess u could have an argument there..but know that nash left dallas in 04…and they made the finals appearence in 06…so thats 2 years…and the only reason dallas did better without him is cuz it opened it up for nowitzki to do what ever he wanted…not cuz nash brought them down

Why isn’t Nash guarding the opposing team’s point guard? Isn’t the fact that he’s incapable of doing so, that he has to be hidden on defense, an indictment in and of itself?

It’s too bad there’s no position like the designated hitter in basketball, that would suit Steve perfectly. But there’s not. You have to play defense in basketball, and Nash is the only MVP I can think of to be such a horrible liability in 50% of the game.

Imagine if Phil Jackson had to hide MJ on defense, or if Hakeem Olajuwon was unable of guarding David Robinson and Patrick Ewing. To make more of an apples-to-apples comparison, look at John Stockton. Stockton was as great offensively as Nash (if not better), yet was guarding guys like Jordan, Reggie Miller, Magic and so on. Oh, and Stockton was two, three inches shorter than Nash.

Why isn’t Nash guarding the opposing team’s point guard? Isn’t the fact that he’s incapable of doing so, that he has to be hidden on defense, an indictment in and of itself?
—-

i believe that most people would agree that steve’s D is below mediocrity, i wouldn’t even argue with that. but as stated in most comments, he’s got teammates like grant hill and raja bell to fill in that weakness, and steve makes up for it by playing twice as good in the offensive end. that’s the reason why you can’t say that he’s overrated.

i mean, if you’re the coach and your PG allows the guy he’s defending to score 20 points against him, and your PG tries to make up by scoring 20 as well and dish out about 11 assists, isn’t that enough? in PHX’s case i guess that’s more than enough.

and how can you say that PHX’s move to toughen up the defense on the paint is questionable? as far as i’m concerned, SAS beats the hell out of PHX because of TD21, not TP9. now if crtics are expecting steve to go up against TD21, then yeah, steve’s WAAAAAAy overrated.

“Nash is definately not overated. His MVP’s were not based on his great offensive skill or poor defensive skill but his ability to make his teammates better. Scrubs like raja bell and leandro barbosa put up double figures and can start on nash’s squad but thew would be weak players on other teams. He creates for the suns. A phoenix team with marion, bell, stoudemire,and barbosa played with another point gaurd called starbury and didn’t do shit.
Posted by: Ian on February 26th, 2008 at 9:25 pm”

Don’t forget Joe Johnson, who wasn’t even thought of until Nash joined Phoenix.

I already gave Nash his credit. He’s a great offensive player, which I said. But that’s only 50% of the game, and 50% does not an MVP make. Maybe Utah used Stockton as the first cog in double teams, but Nash isn’t even capable of THAT.

The ppg against are irrelevant. The scoring margin is what counts.A team like the Suns gives up more but scores more so that’s a very flawed argument.

Let’s face it, the Suns sucked whenever Nash wasn’t playing and that’s why he is so valuable; he changes the whole team.

BTW, Karl Malone, Larry Bird,Magic Johnson all won multiple mvps and were all below average defenders.
Larry and Karl in particular were crap one on one defenders.

I don’t recall who Nash’s main competition was his first season, but I have no qualms with his selection that year (for the most part). But his second one should have gone to Kobe. No one, and I mean no one, thought the Lakers were going to make the playoffs, yet he did get them there. And was one Tim Thomas shot away from sending Phoenix home. But as someone pointed out earlier, the MVP is a joke. My two pieces of evidence. Jason Kidd had the same effect on New Jersey as the Nash-lovers are pointing out he had when he arrived in Phoenix. Kidd finished 2nd to Duncan despite doing the things as Nash, but also playing defense. Secondly, the second year Nash won, Kobe was not in the top 5 of several ballots. Regardless of who you think should have won, you can’t tell me that Kobe didn’t deserve to be in the top 5 that season. But writers vote with bias, and Kobe is not a media darling. He may finally get it this season, but only because it would such an obvious slight that no writer would dare not having him on their list this season.
Lastly, I’m not sure how Nash went from being a solid point guard to being the NBA’s poster boy. I mean, he has great fundamentals — that is one reason. But John Stockton put up Nash numbers for several years, and not once was he in the MVP discussion.

Additionally, since my post is not really the FOCUS of the article. I’ve never believed the Suns style could win a title. I’m still on the fence whether that is Nash’s fault in the sense that, without him, they are obviously not the same team. But the recent trade, whether they want to admit it or not, was them conceding that their style was not going to get it done. I actually think it was a bad trade for them, but I guess we’ll see come playoff time.

Nash is the best in the league
The suns just traded on of their go to guys (marion) for a slower more clumsy guy (shaq). In order for them to mesh with shaq, things have to change A Bit. I think hat once they get some “team” time under their belt, they will be unstoppable, with nash leading the way.

Wow. You have got to be kidding me. A player that leads his team, from the worst to the best in one year, isnt an MVP. That just doesnt make sense. And for the second year, teams should have been able to stop him with better defenses right. Nope didn’t happen. And Kobe being an MVP???? No way. He is no doubt the best payer around. But he is not a leader in the locker room like Nash, and he cant win anything without a Big Man(Shaq Bynum Pau) and he does not have the leauge best record in thoses years. And MVP doesnt mean all around greatness, it means MOST VALUABLE PLAYER. not MOST ALL-ARROUND PLAYER. I think Kobe would win that, but for everything Valuble its Nash hands down.

And in the midst of this ongoing discussion, the Memphis Grizzlies are giving Phoenix a game. Looks like the Suns will pull it out, but man, it was much closer than it should be for a few minutes there. Mike Conley has a double-double and is breaking Nash’s ankles- just drew a three-point play on Nash to keep ‘em in it, too.

And in the midst of this ongoing discussion, the Memphis Grizzlies are giving Phoenix a game. Looks like the Suns will pull it out, but man, it was much closer than it should be for a few minutes there. Mike Conley has a double-double and is breaking Nash’s ankles- just drew a three-point play on Nash to keep ‘em in it, too.

—-
yeah, and steve has a double-double too.. so fair enough.. another night for steve to make up for his oh so horrible defense

for the record, a “stalwart” defense would be a strong, solid one

For the record, “irony” means: a: the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b: a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony

I agree with most of your article and I routinely get angry with Nash when he misses a rotation or lets a cutter get to the basket with little interference, however, your “caveat” at the end of this post is very misleading. If you’re going to bring up the season before Nash came, you should also mention the fact that they went from 29 wins to a league-best 62 once he showed up.

Thell many others have won NBA MVP and they are even more controversial then Steve Nash getting one or two for that matter. He is an amazing player offensively making up for his lack fo defensive ability. Also MVP stands for most valuable player = Nash since without him Phoenix is just a mix of players. NO one else performed better then him. If you are talking NBA titles Nash still has a long way to go , get off your pro - American butt because Nash is the real deal. Also i was wondering if this is your job or just a random blog b/c if this is your job then you are not doing a good job.

Stop Hating on Nash. No point guards play defense. Its the hardest position to defend. The last point guard to play defense was the glove. Just cause you get steals don’t mean your playing good defense. There are no guards that just go out and lock someone up anymore. Nash makes scrubs into stars. And don’t forget they woulda been in the finals last year if it wasn’t for Horry’s cheap shot. Stop hating and this idiot writing this article shouldn’t write anymore.

off the topic..

a friend once asked me, if i were the coach and there’s only 4 secs left on the clock and my team’s down by 2, who would be the best choice to pass the ball to..

my choice was kobe, for the reason of being the best clutch player in the league.

my friend’s reply was, steve nash. he’s reason? it’s still 4 secs left, if you give it to nash, he’s got a higher percentage of making the shot while keeping in mind that he’s also got 4 teammates to pass to before actually deciding to take the shot. as for kobe, every single being in the stadium that breaths know that he’d take the shot.

So Nash is overrated. Where should he be rated, then?

Steve Nash deserve that back2back MVP because he really played well those seasons and nobody play better than him that time

“Stop hating and this idiot writing this article shouldn’t write anymore.” - hoop12dreams

amen

Get your facts straight, dude.

Suns only allowed 102 points last year, and again 102 points the year before.

And the opposing PG average 21 points and 7.4 assists. But the Suns PG average 24 points and 13 assists.

What a lame article.

You are retarded, I mean cmon now. Steve Nash is the best point guard in the NBA flat out…most assists sets his team up the best, what else do you need. Granted yea…he doesnt have the best defense or the best stealing ability. I didn’t read the whole thing just because it doesnt even deserve that…i mean this article is probably the most idiotic thing written…ever.

You probably….probably….forgot to mention that he is the best shooting point guard with great percentages like 50 fg% 90 ft% and 45 3pt%. You also probably forgot to mention that he averages the most assists in the league. You also probably forgot to mention that he raised the record of the phoenix suns from a terrible 19 game winning record to an amazing 62-20. You might have forgotten to write that he has averaged 10+ assists in his last three years.

But hey…you forgot. It’s a mistake…its not like you have something against him because…you might…might be a Kobe Bryant fan…huh?

Don’t write ever again….and I’m being nice

For those of you joining the discussion late and too lazy to read the whole thing, I’ll post this excerpt from the article again:

“There’s the obvious caveat here: Steve Nash is a great player. He’s unquestionably the catalyst which has transformed Phoenix’s offense into the best and most exciting in the NBA over the last four seasons. In terms of smooth passing skills, court vision, ball-handling and pure shooting Nash is the best player in the league.”

to all those steve nash haters out there f-u.steve nash never gets any respect. he is no dought the best point guard in the game. He makes his team better when hes off the floor his team falls. when dirk nowitski comes off the floor his team is fine without him! DIRK SUCKS! he never should have been MVP.its unbelieveable to me how much people critisize steve nash for his defense. no one is perfect my god! he at least has a respectable defense. steve nash is not even close to being overated.nash has proved time and time again that he can get it doen when it really matters. I promise u that the Phoenix Suns will win the championship this year and by the way DIRK SUCKS! i am the number 1 suns fan.and also spurs duncan sucks.boston is good but not as good as the suns. just to say again nash is the best in the game and the suns WILL WIN the Chamionship.oh and by the way dirk SUCKS!!!!!!!

Yeah most of the comments here doesnt agree with the writer? Do u play basketball Mr. “writer” of i you does maybe u sucks

Nash does get respect, just too much. He is no doubt a great player, but he is over-rated because he has had one of the best teams around him. He gets most of the credit when they win games, but when they lose games he just about never gets blamed. Beside, you need a good team D to win in the postseason, and you can’t have one hole in your D. Since the 02-03 Spurs, the teams that won the Finals had decent D from their PGs(except Miami.Have no idea how they won). And BTW, the Suns can’t beat LA w/o Marion.

Every year you can make a case for 4 or 5 guys who deserve the MVP award but only one guy can win it, but to say Nash wasn’t deserving is dumb. You all bring up the point of Nash not being able to guard other point guards but no one talks about how they can’t guard him either. Look at the Spurs who use Bowen on him. When teams put their best defenders on you and draw up stratigies to stop you, your definately worth of MVP consideration. Look at tonights game Conely had 15 and 11 and shot 47%FG 0%3FG 100%FT. A career high in 11 assists but lost the game to Nash’s team with Nash having 25 and 13 while shooting 73%FG 60%3FG and 100%FT.

“[Dallas} also made it to the NBA Finals in 2006, something they never did before Nash left as a free agent. The Suns haven’t made it there with Nash either. ”

The Suns haven’t, true, but neither have 26 other teams since the 2005 NBA Finals, these teams include the Lakers, Nuggets, Sixers, Jazz, Rockets, Celtics, etc., I don’t think I need to go on.

I’m not hating on your article, I’m just giving factual rebutalls.

Nash is great.. but Kobe is better.

No questions about it!

Kobe didn’t deserve an MVP ‘cuz his team was so poor.

He does deserve it this season.

When you think about an MVP, you know if you’d made a mistake after giving it to him. I think people would agree Steve Nash deserved them when you look back at those two astonishing seasons. But how did you feel after Dirk accepted the award?
Nash could have put in three in a row and no one would have questioned it.

Let me remind you all that MVP stands for “most valuble player”, not best defender. They already have an award for that. The fact of the matter is that in the two years nash won his MVP’s, he was the most valuble player to his team. The sun’s wouldn’t have even been close to the caliber of team they are now if steve didn’t come there. Also, there is a stat that is most used in hockey games but is now being used in the nba. That stat is the +/-. Steve nash is ranked 3rd in that category for all players, and is first in point gaurds. that means that his team does a lot better when he is in vs when he is not. Finnally, there are 30 teams in the NBA. only 16 of those teams make the playoffs, 8 in each conference. steve nash has led his team to the playoffs in 9 of his 11 complete seasons in the nba. And he led the suns to the playoffs each of his 3 years there.

**Posted by: yo on February 27th, 2008 at 12:39 am**

*yo*, thank u for a very interesting point of view…
at least someone understands Phx basketball…

here’s another example:

*Gay led the Grizzlies with a career-high 36 points. * (game today, 2/27/2008, Phx-Mem 127-113).

Gay scored at will. Luckily, Nash is not guarding Gay. Else, this moron writer, will put blame on Nash.

Problem with Phx is that they do NOT play team defense. They are really good on Regular Season but is still questionable comes Playoff.

It would be nice if they could really prove that offense (x2) could bring them to the Finals. (But I still had alot of doubt on it)

**Posted by: Dave on February 27th, 2008 at 12:49 am**

very very very true…

Dont joke with me,

Steve Nash is pro

I wouldn’t call him overrated, a mvp is one who has the most impact on a team. The examples of Garnett and Bryant, they didn’t do such thing to their team, although being a huge lakers fan i hate to say this, but Nash did do a better job in improving their teammates, remember though Nash got all-star level players as teammates, how were the Suns doing before he came along? No one even considered the Suns competing for a playoff seat. About his defense, you’re dann right about it. He simply cannot defend. Not because he’s too weak but just that points in NBA are too strong, especially in the west, plus you now add Kidd to the conference, there really isn’t much room left to talk about defensive skills and liability. He is not overrated for being an MVP, but i’ll have to say from the MVP vote count for Kobe for past two seasons he was definitely underrated. Kobe is arguably the best defensive player in 2 position if he wants to, but for Nash he’s probably one of the worst in points you can ever find., and the thing is he’s trying, but he’s just not strong enough. That probably has to do with he grew up in canada. Americans (especially african-americans) are just way too frikin strong, got all that from the super heavy weight training and stuff like that, where as we don’t really do that much here in Canada. He deserves the MVP, for sure, what about two consecutive ones? maybe, great offensive player, yes, defense…. huh? where’s his defense???

well thats preety amazing how stupid you are sir. i really have no idea what to say u are an complete idiot. those numbers you talked about being an all star line… is made by all stars. so im not quite sure what your teying to rip on him for. he may not be the best defender he certainly isn’t the worst. and STAT is six in blocks in the nba so ya. stop being an idiot and maybe people wont write angry comments

Seriously, what were you thinking while writing this article. If you are on the voting panel for the MVP award, they should strip you of those voting rights because you can’t understand the simple difference between regular season and post season. So, you a kobe fan or lebron fan ? that makes you such a big nash hater ? you might want to revisit the facts about the exact times that nash was on court and what were the opposing team statistics during that time, but you don’t have access to that kind of database, now do ya ?

you are absolutely right steve nash sucks on D and defence is a thing tht a real mvp should have i have never seen steve nash play real defence

he stinks

oh yeah an anonymous 2 places above mine comment :

very great all the stats you write but where re the defensive stats? a real mvp, two time mvp, could’ve been 3 time mvp should have great D but steve nash doesn’t so he shouldn’t have been mvp

Andrew,

I don’t believe the hype.

I like the article. It’s cute that someone calls it a cop-out when you’re challenging a popularly assumed belief and doing so in a thoughtful, reasoned manner. Isn’t that sort of the opposite of a cop out? It’s not lazy or simplistic at all.

I’ve had issues with Nash even though I see a lot to appreciate. I think it’s interesting that some people in their responses don’t realize that Malone was a fantastic defensive player (only reason Lakers got past the Spurs in 03-04 was Malone’s great D on Timmy), especially later in his career, or that people don’t respect Bowen’s defense and just call him a hack. Some very strange ideas. Bowen’s been a top 5 perimeter defender for like a decade. He’s only slowed in recent years due to age. And he’s been a top vote getter for defensive player of the year for nearly a decade as well. The idea that he’s a strong two way player overall is pretty laughable though. His offense is painfully one-dimensional. He doesn’t even come up in a discussion of the best 20 two-way players in the league.

I think there are additional reasons Nash might be over-rated that you didn’t bring up.

Nash is over-rated, or at least not conscientiously rated when people don’t consider the impact of his coach. His coach runs a system designed specifically to take advantage of Nash’s strengths so it makes him look better than he otherwise would. This system also makes players around him look better as they get more activity and shot attempts. Because many players did not get as much PT on other teams, they are more likely to have their highest career averages with the Suns, and they have.

Suns lovers need to stop saying “if only” with the Horry cheap shot on Nash. You don’t know what would have happened. For a team to lack the mental fortitude and discipline to stay on the bench is an indictment of the team as a whole and the playoff maturity of their players. It only feels like the best chance because you got unlucky in one area. And because it feels like the best chance you assume that the Suns would have won it all when you really don’t know. The strong precedent of playoff teams needing great defense and playing great in the half court to win a championship has held pretty well. I believe the Suns have consistently underutilized Amare the last few years and not built a team to play good D and in half court sets during the regular season and that’s why they’ve failed. You certainly can’t disprove that idea as they haven’t succeeded.

Nash is a sweet player and the Suns can fairly be called the Funs because in Nash’s first season on the Suns they were extremely fun to watch and showed that you can be very successful in the regular season running. The Warriors have been another good example of a strong running team and I think they were a better running team than the Suns last year and this year (they did beat the Suns a few times moving at a faster pace than the Suns). One major difference between the Suns and the Warriors is, incidentally, a point guard that plays strong defense.

Nash is an excellent shooter and particularly efficient at it (most efficient in the league). I don’t think he can take the more difficult shots that other shooters like Ray Allen and Michael Redd can take. That of course could be partly an indictment of the other shooters, but having flexibility as a player means you can take what